I’ve covered this issue before and I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but I did want to note that one of the leading Chinese movie directors, Chen Kaige, has made comments criticizing the casting of Chinese actresses in quintessentially Japanese roles because it further blurs the non-Asian stereotypes that many Western people have: that Asians are all the same.
The choice of a pan-Asian cast raises hard questions about the way Hollywood views the world outside America. By using Chinese actors in quintessential Japanese roles, has Marshall become the Quiet American director, an innocent abroad, shaving the edges off human diversity to produce an imagined Japan for an American audience that doesn’t know the real thing?
Or is it a progressive act, as Marshall says, nothing more sinister than hiring the best-qualified actors, regardless of ethnicity, to do what actors do: act?
“Geisha is a part of Japan’s eternal culture,” leading Chinese director Chen Kaige (“Farewell, My Concubine”) said at a symposium on Asian values at Japan’s Kobe University last November. Chen has directed Gong in three movies, but he sharply criticized Marshall’s decision to cast her and other non-Japanese actresses as geishas.
“Every action you make, how you walk, how you use a Japanese fan, how you treat people and what kind of facial expressions you have when you talk is going to be expressed based on your Japanese cultural sophistication. … For Hollywood, however, this does not matter. For them, there is no difference between Japanese and Chinese.”
Marshall defends controversial ‘Geisha’ casting decision – PittsburghLIVE.com
How sad, where was her outrage when non French, German, English and Italian caucasians play French, German, English and Italian rolls.
Oh, I know, she thinks all whiteys are the same so it doesn’t concern her. I’m quite sure the issue never crossed her mind.
The real problem is that on average, Asians are among the most racist groups in the world. The majority of them think of Asians as better than everyone else and their particular kind of Asians as far superior to the rest. Just ask for a show of hands how many people have had to deal with Asian parents that wouldn’t except the lover of a son or daughter that wasn’t just Asian but the same specific race of Asians.
It’s this hyperracism among most of the Asian population that makes them bring these issues up. Otherwise they would let it go BECAUSE IT’S ACTING.
An Australian actress Nicole Kidman plays an American woman all the time. Rene Zellweger, an American actress, has played a British woman. So has Gwyneth Paltrow. I really don’t understand what the problem is about casting Chinese actresses for “Memoirs…”
Besides, if in fact “Memoirs…” offers an erroneous portrait of geishas, it may rather be attributed to the original book the film is based on. The factual authenticity of the book has been disproven by geishas in Japan.
-k
An Australian actress Nicole Kidman plays an American woman all the time. An American actress Renée Zellweger has played a British woman. So has Gwyneth Paltrow. I don’t understand what the problem is about casting Chinese actresses for “Memoirs…”
If in fact “Memoirs…” offers an erroneous portrait of geishas, it may rather be attributed to the original book the film is based on. The factual authenticity of the book has been disproven by geishas in Japan.
-k.
Well, Roland Barthes complained about how actors with “an anglos-saxon lawyer’s mug” were supposed to portray Caesar in Hollywood epics…
A Chinese director is defending Japanese cultural specificity. That can hardly be taken as evidence of racism and ethnocentricity, quite the opposite, specially given how much bad blood there has been historically between the Chinese and Japanese.
Thanks Fazal. That was my point even if I did not make it directly.
“Chinese” doesn’t have much meaning, racially – there are many different distinct phenotypes in the geographic area described as China. So “Chinese” isn’t heavily correlated with one race but many, however there is such a thing as Chinese culture.
Japan, however, is both culturally AND racially distinct. To be Japanese means that you have specifically observable genetic characteristics.
China is more like Africa – with exceptions, Africans are black; however, there’s a huge, observable difference between a Kenyan and a Nigerian. Chinese are “oriental”, but there’s as much difference between a Korean and a Manchu as there is between a Manchu and one of the many other types of Chinese.
Ultimately, we’re talking about historical, period costume drama, and whether or not you can tell a Chinese from a Japanese and if this will damage the story. My opinion: absolutely. That was one of my issues with “House of Flying Daggers” – they cast a Japanese guy as one of the main characters, it was obvious and it was annoying.
So this is a horrible casting error, in my opinion. But similar casting errors have been made that are no less egregious and not all of them are race-based. Witness the horrible Natalie Portman instead of the lovely Keira Knightley in Star Wars, or the embarassment of Steve Zahn in the upcoming “Sahara”, and of course my prior example of “HoFD”.
cdg
If, in fact, “Memoirs” offers an erroneous portrait of geishas, it should be attributed to the book the movie is based on, rather than a “casting problem.” The factual authenticity of the book, written by Arthur Golden, has been disproven by geishas in Japan.
k.
Actually, Takeshi Kaneshiro (House of Flying Daggers) is both Japanese and Taiwanese and is supposed to be fluent in Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover.
Thank you Gen for the post.
Sorry about my double posts.
Thought my first post had disappeared….
-k.
Streotype me
Gen’s post about “Memoir of a Geisha” made me remember something. Actually I don’t care about Chinese actress plays Japanese geisha at all. Nicole Kidman plays American, Rene Zellweger plays British girl, many Americans play European, why Chinese can’…
Christian, So does it bother just as much in the other cases? Was Rene Zellweger a horrible casting error for her role as a British woman? Whities are just as distinct as their Asian counterparts, a Finlander is distinct from a German who is distinct from a French person, Italian, Spaniard just like all the various types of Chinese as well as Koreans and Japanese. Yet no one complains when it’s a whitey. Sure, people of the culture will often laugh their ass off if the actor gets it wrong but there are no charges of racism.
“Every action you make, how you walk, how you use a Japanese fan, how you treat people and what kind of facial expressions you have when you talk is going to be expressed based on your Japanese cultural sophistication”
This part is an error in thinking it through. Being Japanese does not automatically make you more up on ancient Japanese culture than a non Japanese. Go ask any 20 year old in Shibuya to give you details about ancient Japanese culture. Assuming that some Japanese actress is going to some how instinctively know how to wave a fan like a geisha from 80 years ago specifically because she’s Japanese is just fallacy. Even given just a little thought it should be clear that most likely even a Japanese actress would have to study those kinds of things from an expert, the same expert that would be teaching the non-Japanese actress.
Even worse, although Japanese, Koreans, Chinese etc are generally distinct in their looks they are in fact not always distinct. By that mean there are Japanese that look Chinese, Japanese that look Korean, Japanese that look European even but are in fact 100% Japanese. Based on the logic of this racism arguement would these Japanese be okay because they are Japanese even if not knowing that fact viewers would assume they are not Japanese? Or, is the fact that they don’t actually look Japanese mean they should be barred from playing Japanese parts?
Hopefully you’ll see the only what to reconcile all this is just to stop considering the race of the actor/actress.
I’s pretty obvious that we all have our own opinions regarding the “MoG” issue, but can we all at least agree that Kevin Costner was a fairly horrible choice for Robin Hood?
Peace.
I don’t think anyone should be barred from doing anything in theater, really, but for historical docu-dramas, it harms your suspension of disbelief. Particularly in stories where race is actually part of the broader historical context (i.e., if I see a Chinese-looking geisha, I’m immediately going to think about kidnap scenarios, slavery etc. and I’ll wonder, until the movie is over, if that’s part of the dramatic element).
I didn’t like the fact that they didn’t use actual MiG fighters in “Top Gun”, and I wouldn’t care to see a movie that casts a black guy as Balian of Ibelin in the upcoming “Kingdom of Heaven” or a Peruvian in blackface as a slave in “Amistad”.
Oh yeah, and in HoFD, given the long history of antagonism between China and Japan, the fact that in a period-drama you had a Japanese guy running around as a Chinese cop made me wonder about his backstory. It turns out it was just weird-o casting, but it did impact the film.
cdg
As a Canadian in a city, I honestly cannot tell who is what and from where. What does it matter what the nationality of the character is? At leats it’s not the 50’s when Asian characters where ALL played by white people. Supposedly unless you’re looking at your own culture, it’s hard to visually pick different people from different races/nationalities apart. Aka, Japanese from Chinese, Iraqi from Egyptian, Indians from Pakastanis.
Jessica, I can understand your perspective, but there are many people who CAN tell the difference between Asian nationalities. Because you can’t doesn’t mean that it isn’t important.
I’ve been enjoying this debate for a months now so I thought, for what it’s worth, I’d add an Irish perspective for comparison purposes.
The US has a long tradition dating back to the 19th century and beyond of Hollywood and Broadway actors and actresses stereotyping and lambasting the Irish character. Stage-Irishness, it was called, with its smiling, drunken, jig-dancing leprachauns singing “top of the morning to you” and producing pots of gold nuggets from the bottoms of rainbows.
And I hated it. So I completely understand the sentiment and worries about this geisha film.
In the Irish case, things have moved on a lot since then but you’re still going to get your stereotyping.
The stereotyping comes mostly from the script (it’s all in the script after all), but it can also come from the acting.
Barring extremes like leprachaun costumes, it rarely comes from the looks (racial characteristics etc.) of the actors. Richard Gere (IRA member in the Jackal) looks credibly Irish to me. Same for Julia Roberts (Kitty Kiernan in Michael Collins).
The disbelief comes when they open their mouths and start to deliver the ham-fisted stage Oorish accents (Gere was a disgrace; Roberts wasn’t terrible it must be said). In the Irish case, it’s in the accents.
The Geisha film won’t have the problem of accent authenticity since it’s in English. It’s a Hollywood job. In fact, if you look at it like that, it can’t be authentic from the outset, even before you start worrying about whether or not Chinese actors can look Japanese. This film can’t be authentic anyway.
Perhaps the focus on why Chinese actors are being hired is the wrong one. Maybe the complaint should be why the film isn’t being done in Japanese. (And if it were, it certainly would be easier to get Japanese cast.) Of course, if you take that logic to its extreme, you’ve also got to ask why geisha aren’t playing the geisha, and why butchers don’t play butchers and serial-killers serial-killers for that matter. (There are some who do take this line, mostly staunchly anti-Hollywood film buffs with a love for documentary film.)
That’s my main point. But I also have a little aside. On the issue of Japan being racially distinct from their close East Asian neighbours, I suggest the people saying so should try this little (non-scientific) test:
http://www.alllooksame.com/
And if you do get a high score, ask yourself if you did because you were able to distinguish the racial differences showing in the faces. Then ask yourself if you did because you were able to tell the fashions apart.
Want to add one more point. There’s a difference between saying “All Asians look the same” and “some Chinese look like some Japanese and vice versa.”
Just curious for you experts…Would a woman be barred from becoming a maiko or geisha because of features that were not characteristically Japanese?
For example, would a girl be disqualified for a small nose? Or big eyes? Being tall? Large chested? Round face? Darker skin?
It seems the most accurate casting would be best done by people who actually chose women to become Geishas and looked for what they looked for. Since I’ve always thought that the Geisha mold was not the “average japanese woman” mold but rather someone closer to the social ideal, it seems odd that the casting should go that way.
“For Hollywood, however, this does not matter. For them, there is no difference between Japanese and Chinese.”
Actually he never said this,Gen.
http://www.people.ne.jp/2004/11/12/print20041112_45136.html
“Being Japanese does not automatically make you more up on ancient Japanese culture than a non Japanese. Go ask any 20 year old in Shibuya to give you details about ancient Japanese culture.”
well,I was one of those girls in shibuya(not anymore though),I don’t think our understanding of Japanese culture is worse than Zhang Ziyi.
Some girls were in Sado club in their highschool,my firend had experienced in Japanese dance,you can’t say all the girls in shibuya know nothing about Japanese culture.we know many Japanese stories,our people and the way of our life.at least we have clear image of purely Japanese beauty that many non-Japanese don’t have.
After all,not all Japanese actresses are “modern” like us.
“Assuming that some Japanese actress is going to some how instinctively know how to wave a fan like a geisha from 80 years ago specifically because she’s Japanese is just fallacy. Even given just a little thought it should be clear that most likely even a Japanese actress would have to study those kinds of things from an expert, the same expert that would be teaching the non-Japanese actress.”
http://michelleyeoh.info/Movie/Mg/mgnews120604.html
-they(Japanese) are so natural in terms of the walking and the different aspects (of Japanese culture). They don’t have to think about it. It’s in their blood. Many times they have helped us. For example, like Ken (Watanabe) often says: oh it’s better if you put your hands here, or, it’s better if you walk like this. And Yuki (Kudoh) has been very helpful as well.-
Zhang Ziyi said so by herself.
“why geisha aren’t playing the geisha, and why butchers don’t play butchers and serial-killers serial-killers for that matter.”
Because they are not actor?
“would a girl be disqualified for a small nose? Or big eyes? Being tall? Large chested? Round face? Darker skin?”
Considering geisha is huge cultural icon of purely Japanese beauty,no doubt classical Japanese looking is better suited for the part of geisha instead of classical Chinese looking,because…it’s not a documentary!!
Is it still surprising Asian says we don’t look the same?
By the way,since when did average Japanese woman have big nose?just curious…
“why geisha aren’t playing the geisha, and why butchers don’t play butchers and serial-killers serial-killers for that matter.”
“Because they are not actor?”
Or because it’s not real?
Theoretically, if you’re really worried about authenticity, it’s just as valid to complain that actors are being used in first place as to complain about the nationality/race of the actors.
And on the same note, if you’re really worried about authenticity, why don’t you complain about the film not being in Japanese? Surely that’s much more of a problem.
Realistically, it’s just another Hollywood flick produced for American audiences.
Thanks a lot for that test, I got horribly bad. I am a quarter Asian, but people think I am Italian all the time and never even guess that my grandfather was chinese. I have really pale skin with hazel/green eyes and black hair. Even Chinese people think I am lying when I say my grandfather was chinese. I am in europe and I confused a japanese with a chinese and he said’
“you europeans all think we look the same?”
I said”well actaully I am a quarter chinese, so if you are being racist” blah blah you get the picture.
It is becoming common now in Japan for people to dye their hair blond and get eye surgery to look less Asian, thats what I heard, because the Japanese don’t think of themselves as Asians but Europeans.
To Christian Gates:
The Japanese guy, Kaneshiro Takeshi, is more Chinese than Japanese (3/4 Taiwanese & 1/4 Japanese). He speaks better Chinese than Japanese. In fact, he could barely speak Japanese before he moved to Japan for his acting career. I don’t want to point out your prejudice and ignorance…but check out his bio yourself: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437580/
Christian Gates wrote:
“That was one of my issues with “House of Flying Daggers” – they cast a Japanese guy as one of the main characters, it was obvious and it was annoying.”
To Christian Gates:
The Japanese guy, Kaneshiro Takeshi, is more Chinese than Japanese (3/4 Taiwanese & 1/4 Japanese). He speaks better Chinese than Japanese. In fact, he could barely speak Japanese before he moved to Japan for his acting career. I don’t want to point out your prejudice and ignorance, but it was obvious and it was annoying…check out his bio yourself: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437580/bio
Christian Gates wrote:
“That was one of my issues with “House of Flying Daggers” – they cast a Japanese guy as one of the main characters, it was obvious and it was annoying.”
Artist7:
Regardless of his genetics – he LOOKED Japanese, which was my point. Whether he is or is not isn’t relevant. I will absolutely plead ignorance about the guys background, because I honestly don’t care.
It’s worth hammering home, though, that an actor’s appearance is part of their performance, and to deny that is to deny the very point of acting; why you wish to do so is beyond me. To deny that people of different backgrounds look different is just nonsense. It’s far from prejudicial to say that most Japanese look different from most Chinese – it’s an observable fact. For one, there are many different Chinese looks, but really one Japanese look. They have distinctly observable features in most cases. I get annoyed when I look at old Western’s and the “Indians” that John Wayne is beating on are white guys in face paint, too.
I would also advise you that before calling me a racist, apparently because I think that Chinese and Japanese people look different, and that I also believe that things should look “right” in films, you should think about the context of my remarks a little bit more carefully. I had thought that they were well defined by my absurdities. However, I’ll add one more so you really get the point, which, by your remarks, I see you missed.
Casting an obese African woman with a thick Malian accent as Steve Prefontain (a white, American long distance runner) would certainly ruin the illusion of the story. It’s just not credible. Steve Prefontain was a skinny white guy, and there is no way to get around it. The story in part depends upon him being a skinny white guy, regardless of how talented an actress my theoretical Malian might be. Maybe she can even out-act Alec Baldwin. But she can’t be Steve Prefontain.
Noting genetic differences is not racism. Making casting decisions based on appearance is not racism. Just like using U.S. Northrop fighters as substitue MiG’s is annoying. Of course, if you think all Asians look alike to your artist’s eye, then by all means please say so – if that was the case, then I would clearly be ranting about nothing.
And next time you talk to Gen, tell him you always thought that he was Chinese.
cdg
“Or because it’s not real?”
Or because it’s not about traditional Irish culture?
“it’s just as valid to complain that actors are being used in first place as to complain about the nationality/race of the actors.”
What’s wrong with Caucasian playing Asian and Asian playing Africans?
it’s just as valid to complain that actors are being used in first place as to complain about the nationality/race of the actors.
“if you’re really worried about authenticity, why don’t you complain about the film not being in Japanese? Surely that’s much more of a problem.”
It’s not about authenticity,it’s about respect I whould say.
First of all,I never complained and worried about anything.
I just explained a fact non-geisha Japanese actor and non-geisha Chinese actor are not the same.
“I am a quarter Asian, but people think I am Italian all the time and never even guess that my grandfather was chinese.”
Then you looked Italian,even if you are a quarter Asian.and I would be surprised if there was someone who can tell Keanu Reeves is a quarter Chinese just by looking.
“It is becoming common now in Japan for people to dye their hair blond and get eye surgery to look less Asian, thats what I heard, because the Japanese don’t think of themselves as Asians but Europeans.”
It is becoming common now in the west for people to dye their hair dark and get nose surgery to look less European,that’s what I heard,because they don’t think of themselves as Europeans but Asians.
Geisha aren’t playing the geisha, and why butchers don’t play butchers and serial-killers serial-killers for that matter….because it’s not about traditional Irish culture??
Sorry. That makes little sense.
I’ll make my point one last time. I’d love to hear your rational opinions on it.
Why do you readily accept the geisha film being made in a foreign language (American English) but not accept that it is being made using foreign actors (Chinese)?
Could this be in any way connected with Japan’s views of America and China?
I’m saying it’s about a culture.
I think it’s pretty strange that you ,a person who can completely understand the sentiment and worries about this geisha film, have never given your opinions from aspect of geisha culture.
“Why do you readily accept the geisha film being made in a foreign language (American English) but not accept that it is being made using foreign actors (Chinese)?”
err,excuse me but why am I being unable to accept the film being made using foreign actors here??
My opinion?well,I don’t mind about Chinese actresses.Not because they aren’t much different than non-geisha Japanese actresses but because it’s always in Hollywood non-Japanese actors(especially Chinese) play Japanese role.It’s not complete surprising.
But I think “No Japanese” means different to may people especially when the film is about so Japanese people that are very unique to the way of Japanese life.
There is a big difference between “not 100% authentic geisha” and “geisha having different culture counterparts”.
Then again,that’s not what I don’t like about.
I don’t like some posters are trivializing an issue by saying damn things like “even Japanese can’t play 100% acculate geisha after all,just the same” or “Asian don’t look the same?well,you should try this test entitled ALLLOOKTHESAME”.
By the way,all actors in this film are supposed to speak British English with Japanese accent.I heard Chinese actresses will speak some Japanese language too.
“Could this be in any way connected with Japan’s views of America and China?”
I ask you,
why does a Chinese director readily accept the geisha film being made in a foreign language but not accept that it is being made using foreign actors?
Could this be in any way connected with JAPAN’s views of America and China?
Obvious you have a bias against my posts just because I am a Japanese.
Maybe this should be added to my list of “what I can’t accept”.
Thank you for your opinions.
I was not attempting to trivialize the issue, but rather to discuss it. What interested me was whether the reaction, which is clearly understandable on an emotional level, could be justified theoretically, and whether there were more elements to consider than just the emotional reaction.
I posted the badly-named “alllooksame” test (it should be named “don’t all always look so different”) to make a specific point that I felt contributed to that discussion. I won’t repeat that point. I was not doing so to disrespect your culture.
Please don’t assume that if a person does not agree with all of what you are saying, it is because of your nationality. Likewise, I presume you don’t assume that if a person does agree with all of what you are saying, it is because of your nationality.
Here’s a point I suspect you’ll agree with me on: I won’t be using this film to learn about one of the unique aspects of Japan’s traditional culture.
“I posted the badly-named “alllooksame” test (it should be named “don’t all always look so different”) to make a specific point that I felt contributed to that discussion. I won’t repeat that point. I was not doing so to disrespect your culture.”
A Japanese who looks as Chinese as Zhang Ziyi and Gong Li and Michelle Yeoh is very very rare(I’ve never actually met such a Japanese in my life of 21 yeas),they are so different looking.
So,what’s your point by using a “dontallalwayslooksodifferent.com” test?That test make them look less Chinese or what?
“Please don’t assume that if a person does not agree with all of what you are saying, it is because of your nationality. Likewise, I presume you don’t assume that if a person does agree with all of what you are saying, it is because of your nationality.”
I ask you,
why does a Chinese director readily accept the geisha film being made in a foreign language but not accept that it is being made using foreign actors?
Could this be in any way connected with JAPAN’s views of America and China?
Why you said “Japan’s views of America and China” if not because of my nationality?
What you said can’t be taken as “disagreement”.
“I won’t be using this film to learn about one of the unique aspects of Japan’s traditional culture.”
But many western audiences might will be using this film to learn about one of the unique aspects of Japan’s traditional culture.
I can completely understand why people can’t be optimistic like you who says “This film can’t be authentic anyway”.
“A Japanese who looks as Chinese as Zhang Ziyi and Gong Li and Michelle Yeoh is very very rare(I’ve never actually met such a Japanese in my life of 21 yeas),they are so different looking.
So,what’s your point by using a “dontallalwayslooksodifferent.com” test?That test make them look less Chinese or what?”
I think we have different views on what “a Japanese” means. Your view is based on racial characteristics. Mine is based on the nationality written in your passport. There are people of Chinese origin who are Japanese. There are so many people of Korean origin who are Japanese. There are the Ainu people. The people of Ryukyu. There are people of American origin. People of Scandinavian origin. You’re quite willing to propogate the myth that all Japanese look the same, but dislike it if it appears someone is saying all Asians look the same. For me they are both myths. And my point is simple. Choosing a Chinese person as the next best thing in the case of this Hollywood movie is not such a terrible thing. It could as easily be motivated by pragmatism as a slur on all Japanese and all Asians.
You’ve still not given any kind of answer about why filming the movie in English is okay, but filming it using Chinese actors is a lack of respect.
“Mine is based on the nationality written in your passport.”
Nah,so why you posted alllookthesame.com test?Why you said “There’s a difference between saying “All Asians look the same” and “some Chinese look like some Japanese and vice versa.””?
It’s hard to believe your view was based on the nationality written in your passport.
“There are people of Chinese origin who are Japanese. There are so many people of Korean origin who are Japanese. There are the Ainu people. The people of Ryukyu. There are people of American origin.People of Scandinavian origin.You’re quite willing to propogate the myth that all Japanese look the same”
Hmm,No.You’re just assuming that there is no Japanese look because there are Japanese people of non-Japanese origine while implying the people of non-Japanese origine “look” nothing like Japanese.
You’re quite willing to propogate the myth that all people look Japanese.
“You’ve still not given any kind of answer about why filming the movie in English is okay, but filming it using Chinese actors is a lack of respect.”
Because you asked this question for the first time,LOL.
I said filming in English is not a lack of respect?I said using Chinese actors is not okay?
How can you say things like that if you really don’t have a bias against my opinions?
Although I’m disappointed the film is being made in English,it’s more disappointing that geisha culture isn’t portrayed by Japanese while giving non-cultural roles to Japanese actors.
Also,I think it’s just bad idea that geisha world is being made with mixed cultural complexion.Director even said “It is a celebration of the Asian community”(Urgh).
and Chienese actresses,probably they won’t act like Japanese do,IMO.It’s like to expect Catherine Deneuve to act exactly like Goldie Hawn.That’s cluture sophistication diference and is the point of Chen Kaige’s opinion.
It doesn’t much matter for the part of Japanese woman,but does it matter for the part of geisha.
It’s not about authenticity,it’s just how American filmmaker doesn’t value culture difference between Chinese and Japanese.
This is far more disrespectful to the culture than filming in English with Japanese accent.
By the way,why does a Chinese director readily accept the geisha film being made in a foreign language but not accept that it is being made using foreign actors?
Could this be in any way connected with JAPAN’s views of America and China?
You should ask yourself what you were implying by asking me “Could this be in any way connected with JAPAN’s views of America and China?”.
Thanks for your time and for contributing to the discussion. Let’s agree to differ on some, but certainly not all, of the fundamental points being discussed.
The issue of westerners playing other western nationalities most famously erupted when English rose, Vivien Leigh, was chosen to play the southern belle lead in “Gone With the Wind”. She proved to be an accomplished actor, excelled in the part and silenced the critics. The likely problem with MoG is that is that the book is not a great representation of the period and the screenplay will reflect that. Kaori Momoi, reconciling herself to the choice of Chinese actresses, said “the book is told through the eyes of an American and for the film, further filtered through an American director’s lens.” This is the line the promoters will take – that the film descibes a “fantasy geisha world” so the hope the accuracy will be moot. Just as “Notting Hill” looks nothing like any Britain I know.
I think Spielberg walked away from the project when he realized this main problem. In “Last Samurai”, the presence of foreign characters allowed English to be a natural part of the dialogue no matter how unlikely the actual fluency was. Similarly, Peter O’Toole’s tutor in “Last Emperor” allowed the same mix to be employed (a film in which Hollywood Asian stalwart Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa played “Chang”). There are no major foreign charcters in MoG so that plot device is missing. Spielberg considered using Japanese with English subtitles until he realized that there were things that Golden’s characters say in English that can’t easily be said in period Japanese. I think he realized then that the story had to be a fantasy geisha world and he couldn’t fit that with his original conception of the story and his original casting choices (Japanese). Realizing he would have to rethink the whole production, he passed it on to someone with a fresh set of eyes.
Marshall wasn’t unaware of this problem. He has even stuck in a few foreign faces. Has anyone noticed that, among the minor characters, the names “Lt. Hutchins”, “MP Soldier” and “Drunken G.I.” appear? That ‘s a major shift from Spielberg’s original vision. Even so, Marshall did look for a Japanese actor who could carry the film – if only because he was keenly aware of the Japanese box office – but he couldn’t find one. That doesn’t surprise me at all. There are some fantastic actors in Japan but the ability to work with a Hollywood director on a foreign language film requires a particular set of skills – one of which is convincing people you can handle the role and the pressure. Japanese actors seem terribly unambitious. The only one I’ve seen actively soliciting a role in a Hollywood film recently is Norika Fujiwara who fancies herself as a Bond girl. When leading French actor Gerard Depardieu wanted bigger roles, he moved to the U.S. and tried furiously to learn English. Even Zhang Ziyi, who got her break in a Chinese film, has spent time and effort in the US. Yuki Kudoh got a similar, if less important, break in “Mystery Train” and has made the most of it. Very few Japanese actors have made the effort to get work in Hollywood. That’s no bad thing if they don’t like Hollywood but many of them often mention in interviews that they would like to be “considered” for a role in a big US production and the media in Japan always regard it as a great achievement when someone does get a role.
And yet almost no major actors have engaged a competent agent to represent them overseas or moved to the US to build a profile or built up their language and acting skills. Part of the problem is the treadmill of acting in Japan. If you have made it in any way as an actor, your workload is enormous. You would have to take a break from work in Japan to devote enough time to gain entry to the US film world and this looks, to most actors, like career suicide because once you’re off the radar, you’re out. Your promotion company would also throw a fit if you passed up work to live in the US. Sonny Chiba did and, for a long time, it looked like he’d made a huge mistake. The other problem is the Japan media world’s insularity. Few people realize the value of using US agents to represent them or their clients. And yet foreign businessmen are constantly told of the need for a Japanese partner, mentor or patron help navigate a particular industry’s local challenges. The same is true in Hollywood.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the studio already decided that MoG was unlikely to get a good reception in Japan. Slightly ironic given that one factor behind the original green light for the project was the success of “Last Samurai”. They may well have looked at global sales of Golden’s book and noted that Japan seemed underwhelmed by it. In that scenario, the whole focus of the production would have been to maximize domestic box office up and look for a roll-out to the rest of the world. If that is indeed the business calculus, then the balance of risks they were willing to take would have been very clear. There was no way on earth that the studio was going to go with a Japanese unknown unless they felt reassured about the actor’s pedigree or found the actor personally to have “star quality” – judgements in terms of the US market and not local sensibilities. Marshall’s team wasn’t searching for the best Japanese actors and then looking to train someone up to know how to work in a big production. They wanted to find someone who either blew their socks off or knew the idiom of a Hollywood film production. The choice of Chinese actors was simply made because they have all shown that they can carry off a role in a foreign production and have put the effort in to be recognized in the US. Ken Watanabe and Yuki Kudoh got in for the same reason. Kaori Momoi has some small overseas experience but she was chosen because she is an outstanding actor across a wide range or roles. And, of course, Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa.
In that sense, I think you can take all the comments by cast and crew about the suitability of Chinese actresses for the role of Japanese geisha as simply after-the-event justifications. It was a commercial decision. If the film fails commercially, every decision will be attacked and not just casting. If it succeeds, they’ll live quite comfortably with their choices and you can expect to hear Vivien Leigh mentioned repeatedly. The dream scenario for the studio is that it succeeds everywhere and that momentum carries over to Japan – after all there was deep scepticism in local circles about “Last Samurai”. The most unlikely scenario is that it only finds a market in Japan.
You know, I really REALLY do not understand why Japanese do not wish to accept that they are ASIAN!!!!!! Be PROUD, you come from a very ancient and civilized race, which began in China by the way, and if you just TRY and learn to think of the Chinese the way you view yourselves, maybe the Pan Asian Union can happen, which was really what Japan was trying to do in WWII, in a demeaning way, but they almost had the right idea. Look At Europe!! They are unifying, why can’t you?? Learn Chinese, go to China, make friends, and you will find more commonalities than differences,more so than with the rest of the world.
I really REALLY do not understand why you do not wish to accept that the Japanese are proud of being Asian.
Read original post,a CHINESE finds more differences than commonalities.
The Geisha Movie that Should Have Never Been Filmed
Despite the fact that I told my friends, “by casting two well-known Chinese actresses to play Japanese roles would ruin my suspension of disbelief.” It turned out, their performances were so good, I never once would consider the fact that they were not…